Flexibilidad y liderazgo en el lugar de trabajo

Diana Scott [00:00:00 - 00:00:44]

One of the things that our research has clearly shown is that, and you mentioned generations. That's certainly, there are four generations in the workplace right now, which makes it very interesting. But all generations, but in particular Gen Z, really focuses in on the culture of the organization. Leadership matters, you know, how they're being treated. Communication matters. We want to be successful in business. We want to be proud of the companies we work for. We want to achieve the business results so that we can all benefit from that in whatever way. That's what the employees want. That's what the employers also want. So, that's where optimizing can really help people be successful.

Announcer [00:00:44 - 00:00:58]

Welcome to Paychex THRIVE, a Business Podcast, where you'll hear timely insights to help you navigate marketplace dynamics and propel your business forward. Here's your host, Gene Marks.

Gene Marks [00:01:02 - 00:01:23]

Hey, everybody, it's Gene Marks. And welcome back to another episode of the Paychex THRIVE podcast. Thank you so much for joining me. Very glad that you are here. We have as a special guest today, Diana Scott. Diana is the U.S. Human Capital Center Leader at the Conference Board. She is based in New York. And I'm happy to have Diana with me. First of all, Diana, thank you very much for joining us.

Diana Scott [00:01:23 - 00:01:24]

It is my pleasure to be here, Gene.

Gene Marks [00:01:24 - 00:01:56]

Very glad to have you onboard because we have a whole conversation to have about human capital. But before we even get to that conversation, first of all, let's at least tell our audience why you're here. What the Conference Board does. Tell us a little bit about the conference. I know the conference board through consumer confidence. You guys publish a very widely watched monitor on consumer confidence every month. But the Conference Board does a whole lot more than just that. So, tell us a little bit about the organization.

Diana Scott [00:01:56 - 00:02:41]

Well, we consider ourselves a business think tank. We are a nonprofit organization. We have 116-year history. So, we're very focused on how business can be successful in the world based on what's happening in the world. So, we try to bring together the world of geopolitics, everything from policy issues, and put that in context for businesses so that they can function better, be profitable, move forward. And what we like to say is that we like to provide insights that help them look ahead, as well. So, we're not just telling them about what's happened. We're trying to say, what does that mean and how should you be thinking about the future?

Gene Marks [00:02:41 - 00:03:00]

Yeah, that's super important for people. Are you, so how do you guys work with businesses? So, businesses contract with you guys to perform certain studies on their behalf or to provide them with specific information and data. How do businesses use your services?

Diana Scott [00:03:00 - 00:04:54]

Well, we are actually a member-based organization. We are a nonprofit, so people join us. They pay a membership fee to have access to all of our research, all of the networking opportunities that we provide. I think I'd like to say that we are a great research organization, which is what you would expect when somebody calls themselves a think tank. But what we do, because we're membership based, we really let the members come together. So, we provide peer-to-peer networking opportunities across all different levels of an organization. We provide ways to bring them together. We convene them. We also have a number of webcasts, podcasts that highlight the work that we're doing and also facilitate discussions about the work in terms of what does it mean for businesses and how should they think about it.

The nice thing is we have businesses from across, basically small to large. So, think Russell 3000. So, it covers the gamut and it covers multiple industries. So, we can survey all of them. We can bring them together in smaller cohorts depending on what their areas of interest are.

And I'm the head of the Human Capital Center, which means I focus on research around people-related activities. So, how do you find people? How do you keep people? How do you navigate the geopolitical situation and the economic marketplace and labor market in your own business? And what does that mean, and how can you attract and retain the best talent for your organization? But we have other centers as well that focus more on finance or economics or governance of organizations or even things like marketing communication and policy.

Gene Marks [00:04:54 - 00:05:36]

Got it. You must have done this before, because you're providing me with the perfect segue, because, yeah, you're right. I mean, you're the leader, U.S. Human Capital Center Leader, your whole life and job surrounds people, workforce, labor, studying how businesses attract and retain people. And before we start recording this, you said to me that you've got some data that you can share. And you also made an interesting comment that I wanted to kind of talk with you a little bit about how you think that in this tight labor market, looking forward, do you think that small businesses are gonna be the winners when it comes to attracting talent? And I'm curious if you can expand on that.

Diana Scott [00:05:36 - 00:08:28]

Well, we've done a number of research studies around job satisfaction. So, we go out to employees across the United States and across the world, but I'll speak specifically to sort of us based employees, and we ask them, you know, regularly, on a regular basis about satisfaction issues, about what motivates them. We ask them about compensation, and the non-compensation elements that, you know, they feel are important to them. And we also, you know, we have such a large response that we're able to slice and dice it by industry, by size, by company size, and also even some generational and other demographics.

So, one of the things that I believe is driving a lot of change in terms of how employees really are going to value their workplace and make decisions about where they want to work or where they don't want to work: We are noticing there are a couple of things happening. Number one, it's a very tight labor market, so employees do have some say in it. It's surprisingly tight. We continue to think we are, you know, we're going to see it tighten, but it hasn't. I mean, the June figures, 206,000, you know, new non-farm jobs added. You know, on top of, I think it was a revised 218,000 in May. We are not seeing the breaks coming on. We're seeing a little bit of a slowing, but, you know, it's still a very, very robust labor market.

Number two, we've done some research about what do employees value, and we're seeing the shift. We did a research study at the end of last year where we asked employees what is important to them, you know, aside from a competitive base salary, what is important to them in terms of all the other goodies a company could offer. You know, from extra time off to bonuses, you know, more 401(k) match. We gave them a long list. The number one element that came up as the most important across all parts of workers – big companies, small companies, older, younger, new in career, not in career – was flexibility.

So, I think that flexibility coming out of the pandemic, where people had an opportunity to experience, you know, more hybrid work, there were pros and cons to that, even from an employee's perspective. But flexibility is absolutely central to job satisfaction. It's also central to employees wanting to stay in a job. They're, you know, across the board. So, I think that is a key element that we're looking at.

Gene Marks [00:08:28 - 00:08:47]

I just want to say, like, so when I talk about the top-three benefits that employers, you know, need to offer, I mean, it's just, without question: It's health insurance and it's retirement, and now it's flexibility. It used to be back in the day, just time off or vacation plans, but flexibility goes, like, way beyond that, right?

Diana Scott [00:08:47 - 00:10:16]

It absolutely does. And I think, and it depends on what kind of job you have in terms of what flexibility can be offered, and I think employees need to keep - employers – need to keep that in mind because they need to say, okay, maybe I can't offer work from home because it's not a job that is conducive to work from home. I need people serving my customers in a retail location. I need somebody on the factory floor if I'm in manufacturing. That's all understandable, but what employees say is, I want to feel that I have more control over my life. \

Flexibility can come in the form of, yes, I get some flexibility about working certain days from home and certain days I come into the office. It can also mean I have more flexibility in terms of how my schedule is determined. So, if I'm a nurse and I want some flexibility to shift my schedules, or I need to work nights, not days or weekdays, not weekends, whatever, providing more flexibility and say, and control over that constitutes flexibility. So, it's important to recognize that. And I think the employers that have the ability to pivot and make those changes and listen and adapt to the needs of their employees are going to be the ones that do better in attracting the best and also retaining the employees.

Gene Marks [00:10:16 - 00:11:13]

Some employers resist against it. I remember it was like a year or so ago, I was in New Orleans. I was speaking to a state banking group. There were a couple of people in the group that were just adamant that everybody had to be in the office five days a week, because that's the kind of culture that they have. And I understand that. You can make a case for saying you want people to be there. It's team building. It's that kind of a culture. But I don't think it's reality anymore in 2024.

Fifty percent of the workforce are Millennials, Gen Zers. These are people that they want more balance in their lives and they want to have more flexibility. And I just think an employer - this whole series is all about attracting and retaining workers. You know, Diana, and, like, you know, you just, you can't just be operating your business like you did ten years ago, expecting people to be in an office from nine to five, you know?

Diana Scott [00:11:13 - 00:14:15]

Exactly. And I and I think the real important issue for employers to focus on is, okay, well, you know, how do I balance my needs with the needs of the demands of my employees? And I think many leaders in organizations make the mistake of approaching it as, "Oh, this is about tradeoffs. I want this, they want that. Okay, we'll compromise."

We just did a huge study that we just released. We call it Hybrid 2.0, because we contend that hybrid is here to stay. And we also contend that people should stop – employers should stop – focusing on compromise, but really look at this is an opportunity to really optimize how work gets done to the satisfaction of both the employer and the employee. Because if you fundamentally think about where work happens, how work happens, and consider what is important in all the different types of work that gets done in your company, how do we make sure that the work that is very conducive and best done, you know, in a group, because it requires collaboration, it drives innovation, it's about relationship building, that you structure that. That's the work that happens when people are together, and then the work that is best done, heads down. It's more, you know, focus work, allow people the flexibility to do that where they want to do it. If that's, you know, and I think these are largely knowledge worker-type jobs.

But then again, you know, on the other side, it's trust your employees or show them that you trust them and that you're willing to work with them and give them that flexibility, even if it's flexibility around their scheduling and give them some sense of ownership and like, this is a partnership. And those organizations are going to be the ones that succeed.

One of the things that are research has clearly shown is that, and you mentioned generations, that's certainly, there are four generations in the workplace right now, which makes it very interesting. But all generations, but in particular Gen Z, really focuses in on the culture of the organization. Leadership matters. You know, how they're being treated. Communication matters. They want transparency. They want, they want to be told the truth. They don't want to be managed. So, all of those factors, again, speak to, you know, companies that are able to be nimble and adapt to that kind of environment and really work with their employees to figure out, well, what works best for us so that we can achieve what, ultimately, we want all to achieve.

We want to be successful in business. We want to be proud of the companies we work for. We want to achieve the business results so that we can all benefit from that in whatever way. That's what the employees want. That's what the employers also want. So, that's where optimizing can really help people be successful.

Gene Marks [00:14:15 - 00:15:37]

And that is also why I think that many small businesses have a leg up on larger corporations and the government and bigger entities that we're competing against. I mean, I do hear from a lot of clients that it's very, very difficult to compete against companies that have the resources, the ability to pay more or offer better benefit plans, but, Diana, I'll give you an example. Yesterday I was at a client that they're outside of Philadelphia. They have about 70, 80 employees, and they've been a client of mine for a while, like 15 years. And I go there a few times a year, I see the same faces. I mean, the same faces that I saw 10 years ago are still there. And you think to yourself, like, these people, it's a tight job market. They could be leaving this, I mean, these are customer service people, salespeople. I mean, they could leave this company and go and work for some larger company in the area for probably more money, and they don't.
 

And maybe that's laziness, but I don't think it is. I think it's because the company's a good company. It's a good culture. The owners are walking around, an employee makes a suggestion or a comment to them and says, we ought to try this or do that. It literally goes right to the top and oftentimes gets implemented. There's more to it than just compensation, isn't there?

Diana Scott [00:15:37 - 00:15:41]

Absolutely, as long as pay and benefits are competitive.

Gene Marks [00:15:42 - 00:15:43]

Yes, in a range.

Diana Scott [00:15:45 - 00:16:44]

I think leaders, organizations and the leaders that lead them are going to gain the most by offering growth opportunities, quality leadership, and work-life balance. That's what our research is showing. And the interesting thing, it's even more extreme when it comes to, for example, women. Our latest job satisfaction survey, the least satisfied group were not least satisfied. Women were much less satisfied than men, and this is for the 6th year in a row, because the largest gaps were related to things like flexibility, paid time off, work-life balance. Those are the things that women very often are most concerned about, because a larger part of managing the household, managing the family, falls on their shoulders, and they're looking for that flexibility. And they're 50% of the workforce.

Gene Marks [00:16:44 - 00:17:20]

Right. Right. Yeah, it makes a big difference. I agree, which brings me into my next topic, which is we talked about flexibility. We talked about what an upper hand I think smaller organizations have over their bigger counterparts. Talk to me a little bit about other benefits. Now, you just mentioned women in 2024, like childcare and dependent care, has grown so much as an important type of benefit that people are asking for. At least that's what I'm seeing in my world. Are you seeing the same thing, and are there benefits like it that you think are important for a business to consider?

Diana Scott [00:17:21 - 00:18:51]

Interestingly, the flexibility and flexibility was more important from a benefits compensation package perspective than some of things like on-site child care or extra child care benefits. I think people certainly want to be able to take advantage of dependent care accounts and, and put pre-tax dollars away. So, a company should definitely consider offering those.

I do think that childcare is a huge issue, especially in the United States, but that is really more of a policy issue that, you know, needs to be solved on a broader scale. So, you know, I think smaller companies and companies in general probably need to look to broader solutions that are probably, you know, a public-private, you know, partnership as opposed to, you know, trying to put childcare benefits into their specific benefit packages. I mean, I think that, you know, I'm trying to pull out some of the stats because they really were interesting, and in terms of what is valued the most, the flexibility, you know, commitment to well-being, you know, paid time off. Those things were much more important. They ranked much higher than additional childcare benefits, surprisingly.

Gene Marks [00:18:51 - 00:18:54]

Have you ever heard of the term carewashing?

Diana Scott [00:18:55 - 00:18:57]

No, I haven't. What is that?

Gene Marks [00:18:57 - 00:19:33]

The reason why I bring it up is because I just wrote a piece about this for, for Entrepreneur, which is this sort of trend now that people are talking about, which is when employers, they say they care, but they don't. Do you know what I mean? So, they offer, they say, oh, yes, we're very flexible, and we offer flexibility and vacation and pay time off and all of that. But then when push comes to shove and people want that time off, they're like, no, no, no, we can't do that right now because we have work that has to be done. And employees get frustrated because they're like, well, this was promised to us.

Diana Scott [00:19:33 - 00:20:38]

Well, that is actually an interesting point and is consistent with some of the research we've done around the concept of well-being. And we've researched both company leaders, especially CHROs and employees, and ask them, so do you think to the CHRO and the leadership, we say, how much do you think you're responsible for the well-being of your employees? And they say, oh, you know, to a large degree are, yes, 90-something percent. Employees say, yes, they agree that to a certain extent they're responsible, but they also say that many of the well-being programs are not being utilized in the organization.

So, we dug in and we said, well, why not? And it was exactly what you're talking about. Well, you have all these wonderful perks around keeping me healthy financially, healthy from a physical perspective, providing me work-life balance, and you give me all these programmatic elements. But my own supervisor tells me I can't have the time off to actually participate and engage with these, which is why I don't use them.

Gene Marks [00:20:38 - 00:20:39]

Right.

Diana Scott [00:20:39 - 00:20:42]

That's probably a little bit of carewashing, right?

Gene Marks [00:20:42 - 00:21:39]

Absolutely. Care washing. Yeah. And sometimes it does go both ways because remember, employees make commitments, too, that they don't necessarily, you know, stand up to. I mean, there's all these trends of people that quietly quitting, you know what I mean? Or coffee badging, you know, the great resignation. Yep, exactly right.

I mean, so it's a two-way street. I don't want to say it's, you know, all employers that are doing that. But I guess the takeaway is, though, is that if you're going to make these benefits, you're going to make these commitments. You have to stand by them and make sure your employees are using them. Are there any other, I'm just, in the studies that you have done, Diana, are there any other types of benefits that you've found that employers offer? I mean, we talked about retirement, healthcare, and, of course, flexibility. We talked a little bit about childcare.

If you were running your own business, besides those core things which are so important, are there any kind of benefits, even, that you as an employee, that you think you would really welcome or like to see?

Diana Scott [00:21:39 - 00:23:00]

I mean, I think having good maternity/parental leave is certainly something that gives you a competitive leg up right now. And I know that can be challenging in a small business because you have to figure out, how do we provide coverage during the time that a father or mother are off taking advantage of that. But that certainly is something that's important to a certain subsection of your workers. Now, there are other workers that will say, hey, what about me?

And there, some of the programs that have done very well, and they can be bundled very easily are things like pet insurance, legal aid support. Those are valued for people in certain parts of their life stage, so they need to have legal support as they're buying or selling a home. They need to put a will in place, very simple stuff like that. Those kinds of programs, if they're provided as a voluntary benefit, usually have high take-up rates. And if they're provided as just a benefit, that's very appreciated. Pet insurance is the other one. It's only valid, again, for a certain subsection of your employees, but if you can offer it and offer discount pricing on that, it can have the same impact, as well. Of course, I expect good healthcare benefits, but what about my pet?

Gene Marks [00:23:01 - 00:23:23]

Makes complete sense. All right, a couple more questions for you, and I'll let you go. People ask me all the time about recruiting and finding workers, and I don't know if any of your research or if you have some background that might be able to help with advice. Like, where are businesses finding people nowadays in such a tight labor market?

Diana Scott [00:23:23 - 00:24:47]

So, number one, I think if you can be more flexible around the credentials that you're demanding of your employees or your candidates. That's one area that many companies are finding if they focus on skills and look at different credentials that would indicate that this person truly does have the particular skills that you're looking for and worry less about what fancy college degree they have, you will find some gems. So, skills-based hiring can be very useful.

I think the online platforms, many people look to LinkedIn and use it very effectively. It allows them to reduce their outside recruiting costs. And if you can be skilled in learning how to search for people based on certain skills on a LinkedIn-like platform, using social media like that, that can be very useful, as well. And then, of course, some people are beginning to – one of the trends is using AI technology to help you sort through resumes. To do that effectively, though, you really do need to focus on what are the looking for and how do we pull those out of the resumes that are being submitted because very often, if you post a job, you'll get thousands of resumes and it becomes very difficult to sort through those.

Gene Marks [00:24:48 - 00:26:00]

So, let me see if I can go through some of the takeaways in this conversation. First of all, when you're looking to find people having more of a skills-based approach than just a curriculum approach as it is, can benefit us and open up more opportunities to find good people. You said that the core things that businesses have to offer; health insurance, of course, retirement and flexibility, has got to be offered. And we have to be creative and innovative to offer flexibility, whether people are knowledge workers or they're workers that are feet on the ground, we have to make sure that we are offering them those opportunities to take the time off and have that work-life balance.

We've talked about the need to recognize the needs of the four generations that are in the workplace, because I don't even know when in industrial history we've had this many generations in the workplace, and they all have different needs. But one big need besides flexibility is childcare and maternity leave and paid time off for that. These are all really, really important points, and all really useful in helping us to recruit and retain good people. Diana, before I let you go, do you have any final words or anything that we did not talk about that you want to as a takeaway for our audience.

Diana Scott [00:26:01 - 00:27:20]

I think it's important that companies recognize that one of the top things that employees are looking for and that helps create engagement and stickiness is the leadership and the culture that they've built in their organization. And very often that counts for more than anything else. We saw the Great Resignation through, you know, as COVID was kind of 2022. Our job satisfaction study that we just released in June showed that people who had left their jobs in the last two to three years were the least satisfied. So, the grass is not always greener, and I think many of those employees are ripe for the plucking now because they realize that they value, yes, competitive based salary, but they more value the kind of leadership, the kind of career opportunity, growth opportunities, the learning they think they will get opportunities to advance.

And frankly, transparency and culture, the transparency, authenticity and culture of the organizations that they're joining. So, companies that can provide that and great leadership are going to ultimately win.

Gene Marks [00:27:21 - 00:27:32]

Diana Scott is the U.S. Human Capital Center Leader at the Conference Board in New York. Diana, thank you very much for your insights and your advice and your data. Where can people find you or the organization?

Diana Scott [00:27:34 - 00:27:39]

tcb.org or the Conference Board, if you Google.

Gene Marks [00:27:39 - 00:27:44]

Very good. Yep. If you Google the conference board, we'll also, we'll quickly stumble onto your site, as well.

Diana Scott [00:27:44 - 00:27:45]

Absolutely.

Gene Marks [00:27:46 - 00:27:48]

Thank you very much for joining. That was a great conversation.

Diana Scott [00:27:48 - 00:27:50]

It was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Gene Marks [00:27:50 – 00:28:25]

Do you have a topic or a guest that you would like to hear on THRIVE? Please let us know. Visit payx.me/thrivetopics and send us your ideas or matters of interest. Also, if your business is looking to simplify your HR, payroll, benefits, or insurance services, see how Paychex can help. Visit the resource hub at paychex.com/ worx. That’s w-o-r-x. Paychex can help manage those complexities while you focus on all the ways you want your business to thrive. I’m your host, Gene Marks, and thanks for joining us. Until next time, take care.

Announcer [00:28:27 - 00:28:31]

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