El proceso de contratación: navegación por la IA y la colaboración humana

Dawn Fay [00:00:01 - 00:00:51]

And I think what's interesting with AI, just like it is with every other technology, I think we always think, oh, it's going to change this, or it's, you know, this is going to go away or that's going to go away and things change, but they tend not to go away, right?

I think it's nice to have a tool that, again, can maybe help you vet certain things faster, but at the end of the day, for us at least, it might surface a resume or a candidate that, you know, is in our database that meets certain criteria and has done certain things before. But then you got to talk to the person.

You still need to talk to people and really have those conversations, so you understand the motivators because that's so important. Skillsets (are) one thing, but really, what does an individual want to do? What are some of those soft skills? What's the culture of that company like? What's really going to be the best fit?

Announcer [00:00:53 - 00:01:05]

Welcome to Paychex THRIVE, a Business Podcast, where you'll hear timely insights to help you navigate marketplace dynamics and propel your business forward. Here's your host, Gene Marks.

Gene Marks [00:01:09 - 00:01:28]

Hey, everybody, it's Gene Marks, and welcome back to another episode of the Paychex THRIVE podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. We are talking about finding and retaining and recruiting people. And who better talk to is Dawn Fay, who is the operational president at Robert Half.  Dawn, first of all, thank you very much for joining us from New York City.

Dawn Fay [00:01:28 - 00:01:30]

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here with you today.

Gene Marks [00:01:30 - 00:01:58]

Yes, I'm glad to be here, and I know we were talking before we went live what a huge Springsteen fan you are. We're not going to bring up Bruce Springsteen anymore on this call, but if you want to slip in, you know, a lyric once in a while during our conversation, it's completely fine. I'm going to have no problem with that.

Dawn Fay [00:01:45 – 00:01:47]

I will take that as a challenge.

Gene Marks [00:01:47 to 00:01:57]

Yeah, I'll leave that completely up to you. So, first of all, Dawn, let's talk about Robert Half first, okay? This is a conversation about finding, retaining, recruiting people. Tell us, tell us what Robert Half does.

Dawn Fay [00:01:58 - 00:02:14]

Sure. We are the first and largest specialized talent solutions firm. So, simply put, we help people find jobs and we provide talent for companies that are looking for them. So, I'm excited to have this conversation with you today about how do you find talent and how do you keep good talent?

Gene Marks [00:02:14 - 00:02:16]

Very good. How long have you been with the company?

Dawn Fay [00:02:17 - 00:02:18]

Coming up on 28 years now.

Gene Marks [00:02:18 - 00:02:27]

Whoa! I mean, no one, no one is with a company for 28 years. That is amazing. And how did you start out? Were you just a lowly recruiter at one point?

Dawn Fay [00:02:27 - 00:02:54]

I started out finding professionals jobs in the accounting and finance space. I was a financial analyst in my prior life and went to Robert Half for them to help me find a job when I met my husband and we moved to Charlotte and they hired me instead. And I've had a been very, very fortunate to have a great opportunity along the way for all these years now and found myself back home in New York, which is also great. But yes, I was placing people in accounting and finance on a contract basis when I started and have done many other things along the way.

Gene Marks [00:02:54 - 00:03:41]

Great. You know, I'm so glad I'm talking to you because, you know, when some of the conversation we've been having is about recruiting people and finding people, I mean, it's always, you know, it's a tight labor market. We all know that. It's a strong labor market. Finding people is very tough. Executive recruiters get, you know, get mentioned a lot, and I always get different points of view from executive. I mean, I have some clients, dawn, that love recruiting firms like Robert Half. I have others not so enamored as well. So, first of all, let's talk a little bit about what you guys do and how you guys work and how you charge. So, say I'm a company and I'm looking for a full time person. How would we work with you?

Dawn Fay [00:03:41 - 00:04:42]

So, we are specialized. So, depending on what you're looking for, if it's maybe in accounting and finance, as we mentioned earlier, we would have you work with our specialists in accounting and finance, and we would provide talent for you to, we would refer you to their backgrounds with you. You would interview those professionals, and if you got to the point where you saw somebody that you thought was the right fit for your organization and you wanted to hire them, you would do that.

And the fee would be based on that first year's starting annual salary. And again, depending on the level of person you're looking to hire and the skillset, etcetera, that fee will vary depending upon that. But that's how it works.

There's never a fee to the candidate, never a fee to anybody looking for a job. The fee is paid by the company that is hiring the individual only at the time that you hire somebody. If you're going to do a retained search, that's different. There's some portion of the fee that is due upfront, if you're doing a retained search, and those are usually for some more of your very senior level positions, CEO's, CFO's, board members, etc. But that's basically how it works.

Gene Marks [00:04:42 - 00:04:49]

Got it. So, just to make sure I'm clear, so if I'm looking for, and by the way, is it just accounting and finance professionals that you guys know?

Dawn Fay [00:04:50 - 00:04:56]

We're well known for accounting and finance, but we also place people into it, legal, marketing, and creative, as well as administrative.

Gene Marks [00:04:56 - 00:05:24]

Perfect. If I'm looking for somebody that's in that area, you're saying that we could just work with you and you would supply us with candidates that you have. But a retain search is actually like, hey, I am looking for a specific CFO, like a senior-level person with these capabilities. Somebody, maybe they have to relocate, maybe they have to whatever. And that's like more of a, I guess a customized, individualized search. Is that fair?

Dawn Fay [00:05:24 - 00:05:30]

That's correct. It's usually a bit more of a complex search that goes on when you're looking for an individual like that.

Gene Marks [00:05:30 - 00:06:15]

Got it. And this is a chance to sell your services. Why would we use you instead of just doing it on our own?

Dawn Fay [00:06:15 - 00:07:14]

Well, it's a great question, and I think anybody that has hired or tried to hire on their own understands just how much work goes into that and how long it can take. And what's interesting is for us, finding the talent: We do that all day, every day. We are talking to candidates that are looking for opportunities, many of which are passive. So, if you're going to put an ad out, you're going to get a response from some individuals, maybe not all individuals, right? We know what people are looking for. We're basically their agents that's out there. We've got access to just so much talent for doing this for so many years and being specialized the way that we are. We've got the expertise and the niche.

Many of the individuals that place people in accounting and finance, like myself, we came out of accounting and finance. So, we've got the expertise. We understand that, and we can really help people find not only the right technical fit, but the right cultural fit. We work geographically, so that if I'm here in New York City and you're looking to hire somebody, I want to come meet you. I want to understand the culture of your firm. Think, as everybody knows, how important it is to not only make a technical fit, but that cultural fit.

So, when you want to work with a specialist that's got the inventory and understands what candidates are looking for, to make that right match it, as you know, not only can take a while, but if you make the wrong hire, how much, obviously, that can cost a company ... and just disruption to the services of what you're doing. So, there is a lot that goes into it that and, we can really help organizations and individuals save a whole lot of time and hopefully make that right match the first time.

Gene Marks [00:07:14 - 00:07:54]

And I guess also, if I'm looking for an employee for my business, I mean, you're going to the normal places, the online platforms, even social media. It's very, very time consuming. And I think you brought up a really good point. And I just want to make sure that we can emphasize that if I'm looking for somebody, the people that are going to respond to my ad are the people that are also looking for a job for whatever reason, including that they might be out of a job. Whereas if I work with you, you've got a database of people that are looking or maybe aren't looking right now, but would consider the opportunity. Correct? It's passive.

Dawn Fay [00:07:54 - 00:08:43]

That is correct, right? The sort of passive job seeker. And by the way, many individuals that we know or know of that when we've got that right opportunity that might be yours, right, that you're looking to hire for, we can make that call. And having the relationships that we do with individuals for so long because again, we've been doing this, right? So, we've got relationships with people that we've had for many, many, many years, they'll respond to us, right? And we can have that conversation with them.

The other thing that's noteworthy, too, is we don't just place people on a permanent basis, we place people on a contract basis as well, too. And that can be a great way for people to either get experience and land their first job and, or for somebody that might not need somebody permanently, but you might need people through sort of a peak season, and you might just need somebody on a contract basis. So, I just think it's good for you to know that we actually do both.

Gene Marks [00:08:43 - 00:09:07]

So, on a contract basis basically means that you're operating as a staffing company. So, say I'm looking for, I'll stick to the accounting concept. I'm looking for a controller. I could actually have a contract based controller for a while through you, or I'm paying you and you're paying them. But then I guess after a period of time we might keep them on as a contract and continue to pay you, but how does that work then, if we decide to hire that person?

Dawn Fay [00:09:07 - 00:10:16]

Yeah, and that happens many, many, very often, right, with good fits. And that would just be something that we would work out. So, it just depends on lots of factors of how long a person's been there, etc. But that's absolutely an option. And many people hire that way for a variety of reasons, or many people while they're looking to make that permanent hire, but the workflow is heavy. So, to keep everybody from burning out, we'll maybe put a contract professional in while they're doing the search. And many times, it's like, you know what? That's the right person. We're going to actually convert that person and hire them permanently, or, you know, they might find somebody else as a better fit. Hire that person permanently.

The contract professional can actually help get that person up to speed. Then that contract ends and you've got your new permanent hire. So, there's a lot of different ways that people can use that. But it's an important thing for people to realize. It's a great tool to use because sometimes your businesses really run in different cycles. So, you know, carrying a full-time staff at this level when you've got these peaks and valleys, may not make the best business sense, but you can, you certainly need that help through the busy seasons, whether it be, you know, again, looking at accounting and finance, year-end tax seasons, etc. So, there's a lot of reasons and times when it makes a lot of sense for people to use contract professionals as well.

Gene Marks [00:10:16 - 00:10:26]

What type of services do you provide during the recruiting effort? Are you involved in the interviewing? Are you involved in final decisions? Are you involved in helping to negotiate salaries or benefits?

Dawn Fay [00:10:26 - 00:11:25]

Yeah, we are there through all of it for both the company hiring a person as well as the candidate, the individual, as I mentioned, right? We've got relationships on both sides, so obviously the two come together and spend time, whether it be through interviews together or while a person's on a contract basis. But we are there to help in every step of the way. So, we want to make sure that we've got the service levels we need. Sometimes people just can't articulate some of the skills that they actually have or, you know, get nervous or maybe even forget sometimes some of the things they've done.

An organization, again, when you're looking to hire somebody, may even forget some of the key things that you're looking for because you're so busy that we can kind of help, maybe fill in those gaps and connect. And sometimes, too, we realize, you know, maybe it isn't the right fit or maybe this isn't the right person. And as we help people through the process on both sides, we may come to the realization that, you know what? Maybe we've got a better candidate or a better job for that candidate, etc. So, we're there every step of the way to help on both sides of the fence to make sure this is the right fit.

Gene Marks [00:11:25 - 00:11:40]

Got it. And is it safe to assume that you guys do the vetting of the candidate as well? Like. Right. So, if I'm talking to somebody, you've done the background checks, you've done whatever, you know, nominal testing or any kind of pre-qualifications that we might need.

Dawn Fay [00:11:40 - 00:11:58]

Correct. It depends on, obviously, what the person skill set is. But, but we interview all of the individuals, and like you said, we certainly have skills assessment depending on what a person background is, that might be relevant that we can do. And, you know, all of that. But there's absolutely all. We're not just sending somebody, a resume of an individual we've never spoken to.

Gene Marks [00:11:58 - 00:11:59]

Got it.

Dawn Fay [00:11:59 - 00:12:00]

That's not how we work.

Gene Marks [00:12:00 - 00:12:11]

And what happens if it's a bad hire? I mean, you know, we make the decision, we bring somebody on and, I don't know, 30 days later, 60 days later, like it is not working out. Is there any recourse for ...

Dawn Fay [00:12:11 - 00:12:53]

Yeah, that happens unfortunately, right? Sometimes it does. Oftentimes it's, you know, whether there be a skill set that doesn't get picked up or sometimes it's the soft skills and the cultural fit, that's just not there. That's why we stay with the placement throughout the process. Again, whether it's contract or even on that permanent basis, to make sure, talking to both the candidate as well as the employer, is this the right fit? How are things happening? And if it's not like anything, you work it out, right? It's, you know, is it time to find another candidate? Is there a different role for that person? Do they need more training and onboarding? You know, where, where kind of was the miss? And if it's not anything that can be solved and it's not the right fit, then, you know, obviously it's time to part ways, and then we can talk about what's the best next step and what's the best way forward.

Gene Marks [00:12:53 - 00:13:00]

Okay, fair enough. So, Dawn, you've been doing this. I'm gonna. You're gonna be really depressed when I tell you this, but you've been doing this since, like, the 1990s.

Dawn Fay [00:13:00 - 00:13:04]

1996. I started September 1996.

Gene Marks [00:13:04 - 00:13:06]

Like, big, poofy hair and, like, showing there.

Dawn Fay [00:13:06 - 00:13:07]

All of it. All of it, right?

Gene Marks [00:13:07 - 00:13:19]

The whole look. So, it's been a long time. So, let's talk about the business. First of all, how's business now, and how has it changed in the past 28 years?

Dawn Fay [00:13:19 - 00:14:21]

It has changed tremendously, as you might imagine. Technology certainly has changed a lot. I mean, back in the day, think about faxing resumes to people, and things just took so much longer. We're able to just be more efficient now with our time and with our clients' time, our candidates' time. Technology has really enabled that. I mean, just being able to do what we're doing right now, right? To be able to talk and see one another. So, we've just been able to move faster, and that's been a really good thing.

But what's so interesting about this business is the market's ever-changing. It's, you know, you can place a staff accountant at the same company five times over. It's different every time because the people are different and the motivators are different. And obviously, the marketplace can be different, and there's a supply-and-demand things and issues that go on. So, I have seen it all, I believe, over the last 28 years, although I say that, and every time I say that, I've not seen it all. So, continues to evolve. It's very dynamic.

Gene Marks [00:14:21 - 00:14:44]

So, you know, one of the biggest changes you mentioned about technology, I mean, you. Boy, I can think of no other company that would be leaning on AI and other technologies like it, because you guys are vetting so many candidates. I'm kind of curious that, you know, like, how are you leveraging technology? What concerns do you have? Obviously, bias is a big issue. You're in New York. I think New York state actually has laws against using some AI products.

Dawn Fay [00:14:44 – 00:14:47]

Yeah, many states do.

Gene Marks [00:14:47 – 00:14:49]

Now, give me your thoughts on that?

Dawn Fay [00:14:49 - 00:16:17]

We're still, it's still early on, and I think everybody is aware of that. It's certainly still evolving. And I think what's interesting with AI, just like it is with every other technology, I think we always think, oh, it's going to change this, or it's, you know, this is going to go away or that's going to go away and things change, but they tend not to go away, right? I think it's nice to have a tool that, again, can maybe help you vet certain things faster. But at the end of the day, for us at least, it might surface a resume or a candidate that, you know, is in our database that meets certain criteria and has done certain things before.

But then you got to talk to the person, and that's what we still do. So, again, it can get you there faster to maybe pull people in instead of spending more time tediously sourcing for things. But at the end of the day, you still need to talk to people and really have those conversations, so you understand the motivators because that's so important. Skillsets (are) one thing, but really, what does an individual want to do? And what are some of those soft skills? What's the culture of that company like? What's really going to be the best fit?

But certainly, again, technology has been a great time saver, and that's what I have found as it's continued to evolve, whether it's AI or whether it was excel back in the day when I was a financial analyst, right, that saved you from too much ten keying and things like that. So, it's been an accelerator that then tends to get you to another place a little bit faster.

Gene Marks [00:16:17 - 00:16:48]

Good. Okay, I'm going to throw out some terms to you just to get your take on them. These are workplace things and issues and things that they're of high interest to our listeners and to our viewers. So, for example, give me your thoughts on work from home? What are you seeing amongst your clients?

Dawn Fay [00:16:48 - 00:18:23]

Yes, certainly probably the hottest topic over the last ‘x’ amount of years post-COVID. What I will tell you is that workers want flexibility. That has been one of the biggest drivers that we have seen is people really want to have the flexibility and be able to choose sort of where they work. We actually have a stat: 62% of people would take less pay if they had more flexibility. So, I think as an employer, that's something to know right now. I think there's a lot that goes from fully remote to fully in an office five days a week. There's a whole lot of in between. I think the thing that people make a mistake with is they think that one size fits all, or this has to be sort of, it's this for today and forever. It could be different.

What I mean by that is when somebody's new to an organization, they probably need to be in more often to learn to understand, you know, the tools and resources, build relationships with people, etc. But if somebody becomes a little bit more tenured in their career and are fully trained and up to speed, their role may allow for a little bit more flexibility. So, what it is on day one maybe isn't what it is on day 101 or 2,001.

So, I think that both the employer and employees need to think about that and even understand that could cycle based on people's personal lives and cycle based on the business cycles. So, just communication is the key. It's always the key. And I don't think we spend enough time sometimes really communicating and articulating why. Maybe it's the benefits of a person being in more often, or why a person might need some of that flexibility at this stage of life, the year, the month, whatever, that might be good. So, communicate.

Gene Marks [00:18:23 - 00:18:38]

I like it. Next, unlimited paid time off because I tell them I have clients that offer it and other people that say there's no way in heck we would be offering it. What are your thoughts on those types of PTO plans?

Dawn Fay [00:18:38 - 00:19:38]

And it's funny, I have heard some that have unlimited PTO, as they call it, or unlimited paid time off, but I, but they really don't feel like they're allowed to take it, take it whenever. And there seems to be more rules and regulations around it, which one would understand. But I think, like anything, to me, that's something where communication is key.

If you're going to hire professionals to do a job, you've got to have a level of trust with individuals, and you've got to make sure also as an individual, that you're not taking advantage of a situation either. And as long as people are getting their work done, it usually all works itself out. So, but I have found that that can sound great, but actually not feel great for the employer or the employee because there tends to be almost too much regulation around it, where people say, I wish if it was just ‘x’ amount of days, I'd know what it is and I'd feel better taking them and not feel like, am I really allowed to take it? Everybody's different.

Gene Marks [00:19:38 - 00:19:56]

Yeah, there have been a number of studies that have shown that people that have unlimited paid time off plans, the employees wind up taking less time off than they were under, like a use-it or lose-it type of thing. Which brings me to my next topic, mental health benefits. What do you see there? What are your thoughts?

Dawn Fay [00:19:56 - 00:20:51]

Yeah, we are seeing, again, COVID. I kind of call COVID the great accelerator. I think that pre-COVID, many organizations were doing more and more around health and wellness and mental health for their employees, but COVID really accelerated that, and we have also seen that that's very important and it's something that individuals are looking for when they are vetting out roles. What is the employee, sorry, employer doing for me? Not only just from your traditional kind of health, dental vision, but what are those other resources that I have access to?

And many organizations have come up with something called the Employee Assistance Program that has many other types of benefits that individuals have access to, should they need it, for things such as mental health and other types of events that might occur. That has been very popular with employees and something that people have been very interested in. Very interested in.

Gene Marks [00:20:51 - 00:20:56]

Good. Next 4-day workweeks, what are your thoughts on that?

Dawn Fay [00:20:56 - 00:21:07]

Been an interesting one. I've read a lot about it. I have not anecdotally seen any companies that we have worked with or that I know anybody, friends or family been there yet.

Gene Marks [00:21:07 - 00:21:11]

By the way, that's really important that you're saying that. I mean, you're out in the world. This is what you heard.

Dawn Fay [00:21:11 - 00:21:55]

And not to say it doesn't exist. I just haven't necessarily, I think, like anything, it's, some things will work for some industries and some positions and some skillsets, and some things won't. It's very similar to a kind of a fully remote role, right? That will work for certain roles and certain jobs in certain industries, and it won't for others. Just depending on who are your customers and what is it that you're doing and what are your goods and services that you provide.

I, I think we're going to keep an eye on that one. Too soon to tell, I would say, but I have not personally seen anybody doing it yet to be able to give you some anecdotes to say this, really, people are loving it and it's working or work is slacking. I just don't have enough information on it. Watching it.

Gene Marks [00:21:55 - 00:22:10]

When you're talking to a candidate that's out there, it's in your database, and they're evaluating whether to work for a smaller organization or big corporate organization. What do you tell them when it comes to sort of the pros and cons of each?

Dawn Fay [00:22:10 - 00:23:15]

Yeah, again, would depend on their skillsets and whatnot. But I would say in general, at a larger corporation, as you might imagine, you might have more resources. You might have access to maybe more advanced technology. You might have more training programs and formalized onboarding training classes and things such as that. You might have, you know, a more extensive benefits package. You may have more opportunity for, you know, mentorship from different people, etc.

With a smaller organization, what you tend to have is if you maybe don't have, again, maybe some of those formal programs that might be there from learning and development, etc., you tend to just get more access to the actual work. Sometimes when you're with a larger organization, you may be in one kind of functional role in one department, and that's your role. Whereas a smaller organization could really allow you to just broaden across functional areas and be part of different things that maybe you wouldn't have access to at a larger organization.

Gene Marks [00:23:15 - 00:23:19]

Which, by the way, sounds like my organization because I'm more like, you're hired. Now swim.

Dawn Fay [00:23:19 - 00:24:06]

Different strokes for different folks, right? One is not good or bad or right or wrong. They're just different. And I think what's important, though, is for people to know that going in because, and we find ourselves having those conversations with individuals when we talk to them about opportunities to really be able to express. Maybe you don't have the name brand recognition as a smaller organization, but we can really talk about the culture of that company and the individuals that work there and the different things that you're going to get to be part of that you might not, if you're with a larger organization, that you might have to be kind of more in your lane, if you will.

It's always great for us to be able to open people's eyes to both sides of the fence. You know, sometimes people think, oh, big corporate America, I don't, you know, but it might be that right opportunity for them at that point in their career or vice versa.

Gene Marks [00:24:06 - 00:24:31]

Great. That's great. When you bring on a client, then dawn that is going to hire you to help them find a candidate, and again, we'll stick to the financial space. Who would you define or how would you describe your perfect clients? You know, you bring them on and you're like, these guys are going to be great to work with because they really get it. How would you describe that person?

Dawn Fay [00:24:31 - 00:25:52]

Right. Well, knowing that nobody's perfect, the perfect scenario would be one in where everybody can be successful. So, what I mean by that is a company that is really prepared to hire. They know what they're looking for. They've got a good job description. They've got everybody that's involved in that process ready to go and lined up because what we find is if the hiring process takes too long, candidates can become disinterested. They can think you're not interested in them. Other things can get in the way. If things just take too long, you're going to miss out potentially on the right hire just because you're taking too long or taking your time. They need to have realistic not only skillsets that they're looking for, but compensation as well, too.

I think what happens sometimes is individuals start to look to hire and it kind of comes down the wish list of, oh, and if they had this and if they had this, then they have this, and they wind up describing almost two different or three different positions or people.

And then the salary may not be aligned with what is, you know, going in the marketplace at that point in time for that skill set. As you know, that varies based on supply and demand. So, the perfect scenario is when that company is ready, they've got everybody lined up. We know what the process is. We've got a great job description. We've got the fair salary along with it, and we can really get the top talent in and move through the process quickly. That's when it's a great win-win-win for everybody.

Gene Marks [00:25:52 - 00:26:01]

Perfect. And before I let you go, any final thoughts or advice on just recruiting employees in 2024 in such a tight labor market?

Dawn Fay [00:26:01 - 00:27:28]

It is. I think the most important thing people need to do to find good talent is to re recruit the talent you have. There's no better way to attract good talent than to have good people in the seats that are motivated and engaged, because typically you're going to have them involved in the hiring process. Or even if you're nothing, that individual is going to come in and start and onboard and be with those folks. And it's really tough, like anything is, for the first kind of 90 days, you're starting something new. So, having the right people in the right seats engaged in the first place is really important.

Plus, your best people come from your best people. Referrals are really important. So, I think if you again, have an engaged workforce that's happy with the organization, they're going to help you attract talent just because they're going to want to bring people in as opposed to, you know, not feeling like they want to be there. So, I think that's the first step.

And networking is important, right? So always having kind of a network of individuals and kind of just being abreast of what's going on in the industry, using tools and resources. I always mention we have a salary guide we've put together for a very long time now that comes out every year. So, just really being able to use tools like that to understand what are the salaries for those skillsets and those marketplaces at that point in time so that you're not wasting your time or a candidate's time in order to be able to be successful. So, those are a few things maybe we hadn't mentioned before that I think are noteworthy.

Gene Marks [00:27:28 - 00:27:36]

Dawn Fay is the Operational President at Robert Half, a global recruiting firm. She is based in New York City. Dawn, thank you very much for joining.

Dawn Fay [00:27:36 - 00:27:38]

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Gene Marks [00:27:38 - 00:28:32]

Everybody, thank you so much for listening and watching to the Paychex THRIVE podcast. If you need any help or advice or tips in running your business, we'd like to see some prior episodes of this podcast, please sign up for our Paychex THRIVE newsletter. Go to paychex.com/thrive. My name is Gene Marks. Again, thanks for watching or listening. We will see you again soon.

Do you have a topic or a guest that you would like to hear on THRIVE? Please let us know. Visit payx.me/thrivetopics and send us your ideas or matters of interest. Also, if your business is looking to simplify your HR, payroll, benefits, or insurance services, see how Paychex can help. Visit the resource hub paychex.com/worx. That's W-O-R-X.

Paychex can help manage those complexities while you focus on all the ways you want your business to thrive. I'm your host, Gene Marks, and thanks for joining us. Till next time, take care.

Announcer [00:28:32 - 00:28:39]

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